Black Family Table Talk
Black Family Table Talk
S5:E9 | Why Men Stay in Abusive Relationships
Join us at the table with Warren "Jay" Lowe. He shares his incredible story of love, escape, and survival.
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So I got up to get dressed to go to my appointment. And when I pulled my sweatshirt over my head, she knocked me into a wall. From that I then fell to the floor.
Tony:Welcome to Season Five of Black Family Table Talk. We are your host, Toni and Tony. Our hope is that we create a safe place to sit down to discuss ways to build a strong black family.
Toni Henson:Whether it's parenting, relationship building, health, finances, or advocacy. Black Family Table Talk is the voice for black families. This season is brought to you by ABTF travels. Join us for an epic adventure of a lifetime. As we host an official delegation of artists and art enthusiasts in Ghana, West Africa. Please refer to our products page blackfamilytabletalk.com forward slash products for more information. Welcome to Black Family Table Talk. We have the incomparable, alpha. We got an alpha in the house today, Tony, did you know that?
Tony:I saw a purple red wristband I thought it was something else.
Toni Henson:We are here today because my good friend, Warren Lowe. We call them J. We went to Howard together and his cousin, I'm getting sad now, cuz your cousin Ron was a beloved friend of mine. And my husband knew about Ron, he actually got a chance to meet Ron and, and gave us his blessing. But he's he has since gone on transition home. But that's your cousin. So this is we're gonna we're gonna dedicate this to the memory of Ron Davis. Okay, if that's okay with you.
Warren:That's beautiful. And he just had a birthday by 23rd.
Toni Henson:Yes, that's right. First of all, to express how courageous I think you are to want to come on and talk about this publicly. And as a former law enforcement officer, I don't know if you knew that I worked for the prosecutor's office, after I got out of grad school, and I prosecuted domestic violence cases, that was a part of my duties, was to build the case and prosecute them. So I'm very intimate with this as a victim's advocate, with this subject matter. So I really appreciate your strength and courage and the courage that it takes to come and talk about this very sensitive subject. But from a lens that's not normally projected into the community or to the public. And that's through the lens of being a male survivor of domestic violence. Talk about the story, how it started, and how you found yourself where you found yourself.
Warren:First of all, I'd like to say hello to both of you. I really, truly appreciate what you guys are doing with your program. And I also appreciate the opportunity to have this as a platform to speak my piece on and just so you know, getting someone to listen has been a journey that has taken a couple of years and in of itself. I've had a few bites of people step away. Moving on, my name is Warren Lowe. Lots of people call me Jay. I'm a graduate of Howard University class of 1985. I'm also at the END-Stage heart failure. I meant END as in E,N, D-Stage heart failure. I'm listed on UNOS National Registry. It is what is generally known as the transplant list. And I've been on there since October 17 of 2014. I'm still actively on the list and that's been a process. This is part of my story because in my involvement with domestic violence, I was sick at the beginning of the relationship. When this phase of the relationship started, I had already had a defibrillator and pacemaker implanted in my body. Many people associate domestic violence with just a picture they get a graphic of some and towering over a woman unfortunately and attacking her. I'm here to hopefully let it be known that these things happen to men as well for a variety of reasons. I've found that domestic violence is often cyclical. Meaning that in my personal experience, I grew up in a home that had lots of domestic violence, my father towards my mom. So I grew up saying my mother completely obliterated black eyes, broken bones, the entire gamut. My ex wife, was fully aware of my experiences growing up with them as a child. I firmly believe that when you predispose children to domestic violence, you take the risk at them learning all the bad things that are additional to the act of violence itself, just suppression. Such as refusal to share what's going on with anyone else, such as refusal to call the police or social services or any authorities. And I think that's very key, and allowing it to perpetuate into the future. That exposure set me many times out into the street, I grew up in Lackland, New York in Baker Homes Housing Projects. Certainly like any other streets, there's a lot of people out there, unfortunately, at certain times of day and or night, that have a lot of building tech. So my adventure to get into drugs and alcohol with full throttle, by the time I was 12 years old. And there were other people that were out in the streets, those same streets escaping other things. But that's worked out, those are my demons. But I want to also talk about the other part, the dominant factor in domestic violence, and that is control. And I feel it's safe to say that if you pick any domestic violence situation, you're going to find some Avenue where control is being whipped by one person upon the other. In my case, the control happened with regard to my not being able to work, I was covered through my spouse's insurance, I was constantly threatened with being pulled off of her insurance policy. And that is a very huge threat. When the doctors on the other hand are telling you that you need a new heart. I didn't know what to do. Those stretch came frequently. I was also told at one point that I could no longer ridein the family car and understand I was in very, I was a very sick man. And I was very weak, and really at a loss for what I was going to do. I could no longer drive, how will I get to these appointments? How will I pay to eat? How will I travel? How will I do anything? On one occasion, I finally after being told I could no longer ride in a car, I still consider myself to be a strong spirit. So that that part of me that part of J Lowe stood up and defiance and try to walk to a doctor's appointment at the local hospital. And when I got up to get dressed that morning, I got him to get dressed and mind you my ex at the time was five foot 11, about 184 pounds and a black belt in martial arts with an emphasis in sparring. So basically, she knows how to fight. I was extremely weak, often at least 30 to 40% of each day I spent on oxygen by way of a tank or concentrate. So I got up to get dressed to go to my appointment and when I pulled my sweatshirt over my head, she knocked me into a wall. From that I then fell to the floor. I tried to get up and immediately head for a window and why that is key is that I had already fixed a lock on that window for fear that someday I would have to escape out of it due to domestic violence. This day was by no means the first occasion. I tried to jump out of a third storey window with nothing but submit on the graph. But I would have rather taken my chances there than stay in the house. I got half of my body out of the window my right leg, my right torso, she ran up behind me and grabbed me by my the hood of my sweatshirt and choked me for dear life. She choke me so long and so hard. I nearly passed out I fell onto the floor. She came back at me again. I then fake her out and try to maneuver out of the room and go down the stairs that were within the bedroom. She came at me so hard that when she missed me, she ran into a fireplace. That gave me time to try to get down the stairs to escape out of the bedroom. As soon as I opened the door, she jumped on my back, tackled me to the floor and took me face down, and begin punching, hitting and choking me again. I got choked in the window. Now I'm getting choked again in the foyer. Then she called she yelled upstairs for her children, which you should know, they're not kids, their ages range from approximately 15 to 21. Three of them. My daughter had long since moved out, she couldn't take it. She had moved out. She called her three children downstairs, kids get down here and she immediately told them to block the exits repeatedly. She at that time, she had me facedown on the kitchen floor, punching and hitting me. All I could see was feet, the feet of the kids going to the different doors, her feet coming at me. And I just tried to curl up in the fetal position. And I then had to try to get away. I never threw a single blow. All I said was Get off of me. What are you doing? over and over and I'm gasping for air because I've already told you my other circumstance. Front door side doors, the kids would not move. And eventually, one of them could not take it anymore. And eventually I begged and pleaded let me out the whole time I was trying to get out to those doors, she followed behind me beating. And this went on and on, I finally threw my phone at her to try to get away. And fortunately, like in TV, she stopped and caught. And that gave me just enough room to escape out of the house. That was just one situation. That was one time where I broke from allowing that control. But I wanted to give that example to show you how graphic that could be. And for what it's worth, that choking ultimately led to me at later, going to the emergency department. And after two CAT scans, the doctors came in and asked me, Mr. Lowe Have you been choked recently? And when I responded by saying yes. Within a short time, I was told that I had suffered a stroke. Within a short time after that meaning within next 24 hours, both the police and social services came to see me while I was in the hospital. It was a horrible experience. I don't wish this on anyone. My purpose for being here is to try and help others who may be going through something right now to avoid and how to avoid. Like I said, not my first incident. I truly want to emphasize it was by no means the first time. It was the last. It was the last. But there are other factors that are involved here. I think it's important that people understand that you have to get services involved. You've got to get the police involved. You've got to get social services involved, or you're subject to God. Prior to that incident that I described, the police had already been to the house, probably up to definitely over five times. But on one occasion, they came through an anonymous tip. And they came prepared to arrest her. They call for her, they came to the house at like 10 o'clock at night. I was upstairs laying down. She and the children were downstairs in living room. She came and got me they begin to question me. They had already questioned her. They began to question me, they had her sit on the other side of the room. She became aggressive with the police there, jumped off the couch the police then jumped in front of me to protect me and I told her to go sit back down. But then when they asked the questions they needed to ask, I refuse to have her arrested. They were going to take her right then and there. And they said so in front of her and her children. And I refuse and the police left. But rather than appreciate the fact that I just kept her from going to jail and in front of her children no doubt. The first thing she did once they were probably no more than two minutes out of out of the living room. She walked up to me with a finger pointed directly at my face touching my nose and said who the EFF Have you been talking to? What I want people to understand is oftentimes you think as a victim of domestic violence, that siding with them keeping their story close, not telling anyone not telling authorities is going to make them have some type of allegiance to you. But I'm here to say for sure it's not, they're not going to feel any more respect for you, any more loyalty for you, any more, anything. Her only concern was who was going to find out. And for months after that she went on every three weeks, she would ask me, who do you think called the police? She never wants that I'm sorry that what the police said was true. I'm sorry, I've been here beating you and punching you and hitting you and choking you and pulling you down stairs, because all of those things happen. I've been down on stairs pull down less than 36 hours before. Very serious spinal fusion surgery for no logical reason. And she stood on top of me, while I'm laying on it, there's yelling, why do you make me do this to you? So I could go on with these stories forever? I've got plenty of them.
Tony:Let me let me ask Jay. This is your wife you are talking about?
Warren:At that time? Yes.
Tony:I just trying to get a perspective of how do we get to this level of 1000? How did you guys meet? Was there love? And where did the love go? Give us a sense of your relationship with your ex wife?
Warren:Sure. Well, we met..
Toni Henson:I was gonna say I know the person so but let's not put any identifiers out there. Okay, we want to, there's two sides to every story. We don't have her side. And we want to make sure that we're fair.
Warren:I apologize. We met in college and I definitely think there was love on both parts. We had a relationship that spanned from college sweethearts, it went to being engaged, but ultimately did not work out. And there was there were some incidents of violence in the first phase of our relationship, in the college slash post college years. Didn't get to the levels that It later became, but there was some, the relationship did not work out. We went our separate ways, had no contact for 25 years, I never reached out to them. And initially, they had never reached out to me. And I mean no communication, not as time evolved, and the internet became available to us and cell phones and email, no contact. And then I don't like to use the term out of the blue. But in 25 years later, I received contact and and many of the Divi stories that you'll hear from people. There's one party that reaches out, and the traditional things get said the apologies, the starting fresh, and I was totally in love. Had for over 25 years, there was still a part of my heart that was still there. I didn't make any efforts towards it, but it was still there. And I assume that the same was true on her. I have to assume that or this will be more insane than it was. So we decided to give it another try. And that's what we did. We eventually got married. So there was definitely some feelings very strong. But I can say that even at the point when we got married, the domestic violence had already started. So I went into my marriage, I can't put everything on her. I'm trying to assume my level of responsibility too because I knew at that point I knew what I was getting into. And there were not that it was not always bad. Usually it's not always that. Usually that other person makes that something's for you that no one else can. They do it in a special way. There were many times she took me to the doctors with loving arms with dedication with driving up and down the road. I truly appreciated all of that. That also played a role in my not wanting to see her go to jail in handcuffs. But that part doesn't excuse the other, and at some point you got to wake up if you want to live. And I had a therapist, fortunately, they sent me to a therapist for preparation for a heart transplant that I'm still waiting on. But what he and I ended up talking about was domestic violence. So while I was going to each of those therapy visits, he was helping me along the way, and he gave me the tools that I needed to finally take action. So even when the police came, and social services came for the next three days after the police came on that anonymous tip, which I can only believe that the police tip social services that something is going on. I mean, the fact that the police would come one night, and social services comes the next three nights after that says something to me. And I did not cooperate with them either, initially. Not on another three occasions. However, the violence just kept amping up, it kept getting more and more extreme. And then seeing that therapist, he told me, if you don't put a stop to this, you're going to end up in a morgue, transplant is not going to be necessary because you're not going to survive. And I kept those words in my heart and unfortunately, he died of pancreatic cancer, but I never forgot what he told me. And the last thing he said to me was that hospital cannot fix their patients and I never ever forgot that. So I held on to that and eventually I reached back out, I said on one of the three occasions, when social services came I was alone and I saved the contact information. And thank God that I did because I was able to eventually reach back to them. You have to have an exit strategy, you have to have some plan to move forward. You can't just do this, you need to have some plan and for me, it was very important that I that I set things up so I required a load of cardiac rehab which is where I was going when I got choked out and be taken hostage and I made arrangements to meet social services there. You have to you have to put time and work into this if you want it to become a reality. I met with social services, they assisted me and eventually we were able to get an order of protection. Through the order protection she was removed from the home and that definitely saved my life. But I would I would advise anyone listening if you're in this kind of situation, press charges. If it's if it's applicable then to do so. Don't not do it thinking that you're gaining some type of loyalty or respect or anything from the other person. First of all, I believe if you did the crime you deserve to to go wherever the system takes you.
Toni Henson:I just wanted to just make some points because what we'll do is we're going to actually have a link to a help guide. Help for men who are being abused. Help guide and in this help guide it says why men don't leave abusive relationships and things that they list are (1) you feel ashamed (2) your religious beliefs dictate that you stay(3) the lack of resources (4) men for you're in denial, (5) you want to protect your children. So those are the five reasons why men don't leave abusive relationships. Fast forward. How are you doing now? How are you doing today?
Warren:Well before I answer that, I would like to touch on the point set you gave, there are a couple that apply to me. What happened in this situation, it was embarrassing Secondly, I was very ill, I still am very ill so I didn't have any financial resources. I didn't know how I would get to my next doctor's appointment. Let alone go through sustained treatment, pay the bills, eat and live. So those were factors and those are similar, no matter which you know. For me they were similar to what you hear women often say as far as you know, how will I live. Dnd then the other one, which is a sad one, but for me was true also was like you see on TV when you see them cry. But I love that the Mr. Mori, you know on Maury Povich. I mean, I love them. And and part of me not going. That was the first one. You know, I do want to say that being a man and coming forward to things you face. And when I finally got up the courage to tell one of the hospitals who repeatedly asked me, Do you feel safe at home? It's a standard question. It's hard to answer that question when the person that you don't feel safe from is sitting right next to you. So when I finally came forward and told them, and when she wasn't with me, when I finally found a way to get to my appointments, because they were out of town, when I found a way to get there, and I finally told them, the head social worker at a prominent hospital, came in the room, looked at me up and down and said, I don't see any bruises, I have another appointment to go to, and walked out of the room. But now I can take you one step worse, I went during the divorce proceedings, I got an attorney, you have to go to an intake officer who takes all your initial information down. This is what my attorney, she looked at me, I'm six foot three, over 250 pounds. She said, Come on, a big man, like you let a woman beat you up. This was at my attorney's office. So if I heard that from my attorney's office, imagine what I hear from the general public, what I heard from some members of different people in the community, different friends, it goes on and on. And that's another reason why I would urge that men or women that you press charges, because that leaves a footprint. That's a record that goes down, I have an order of protection. And that left print. Because the incident that I described to you, along with several others are documented within those court records. But people come down to this. They ask you questions, point blank, did she get arrested? And a lot of times unfortunately, if the answer is no, then they in that story with that being a true no arrest, no, no, no crime.
Toni Henson:Let me tell you what my experience has been. It really depends on the jurisdiction that you're in. I was in Essex County, I was I worked for the prosecutor's office in Essex County, and that's a high crime. prosecutor's office, we will the largest prosecutor's office in the entire state. Our county was had more investigators, 174 best investigators, and that was more than state a G's office. So if you're in town, where the resources are really depleted like they're they're investigating, what they consider to be, what male with the male dominated police system considers to be more egregious crimes, then a male victim of a domestic violence case is a problem that they, in from their perspective, and I'm just speaking generally, thinks that is solvable by the man in the house. And that is probably where the most difficult hurdle that it is to overcome. But you're absolutely right, we're getting the restraining order, and I understand you not wanting to have her arrested. That's a really big decision to make. And I've been in situations where I've investigated female victims, and they didn't want to have their husbands or their their partners arrested. Because for one, like you just said, Who's gonna make the money, who's going to bring home the money, it's there's so many dynamics that come into play, when you're in that situation. And I know from interviewing them that they always hope that things would get better, they always hope that things would get better. And that little sense of hope in that cycle keeps you there in that situation. How are you now how are you now?
Warren:I am. well, as far as my health is concerned, my physical health, I am still on the transplant list, I'm still hoping and praying to be transplanted, I have a bit of an extra difficult circumstance, because for heart transplants, you have to be the same size as your donor or the donor has to be the same size as you. The average male is five foot 9, I am six foot three, that's not a good look. In addition, I also have the second rarest blood type there is so the process has been labored by that. Then there are periods where you can be so ill, that you're too ill to be transplanted. So I've had to go throughthose times as well. I have since gotten another device implanted in me called an L-VAD that stands for left ventricle assist device. And it's a major surgery is a major process but at the time when they decided to implant me, the doctors felt that without it, I would only have six months to a year to live. And so the decision was made to do that. I have one child, I have a daughter, she's now 27 years old and I've had the pleasure of having been involved in her life throughout. And I'm very proud and I live for each day to have more time with her. So I am doing okay, I'm holding my own bed better. Regarding my mental health, I am still struggling very much I've been through at least five therapists, the one gentleman that I spoke to who passed away, he was extremely effective. And that was a blessing and a curse, the curse only being that I haven't found anyone that lived up to that level of treatment. So I'm still working on it, just got a new therapist, we are now discussing something called trauma therapy, which I had not been no one else had it had presented to me as a possible solution. And so I'm going to work with that because that that incident that I described to you, I don't need no trip, I relive that every single day, every single day. The block the exits, block the exits, I hear that every single day. I'm working hard to move past it mentally. Doing this right here is a first step. One of the first steps towards healing though. I believe that helping others helps you breathe. I want to say to both you, Mr. And Mrs. Mrs. Toni, that I feel my breathing improving as I'm speaking to you as right now. It's getting better just to taking the step. One thing I say that's gonna be my mantra from here on out is that the man I was then needed the man I am now but I'm here now. And for anyone who may find themselves in situations, or situations male or female, I want to be there for them. I think that's going to help me so if you ask me in five years from now, when I've got my new heart and I'm living and maybe I'm back on the show, I will say I'm doing great, because I will be able to say that I've helped somebody else get over the hump.
Tony:What a story. As a man, I feel your pain and I feel for you, I really feel for you. Because I can understand, men don't get the same benefit of the doubt when it comes to domestic violence. Like your own attorney had some doubt, your representation has some doubt that it happened. So what do you think needs to happen? What parameters or protections or laws or what do you think needs to happen to help people in your situation going forward? What are your thoughts on that?
Warren:I'm glad you asked that question. I think the first thing is what we're doing right now. I think the very first step is speaking, open up your mouth and say something, put your pride aside, put your love, if dictated love whatever it is, put that aside and speak on. You get very little in life. Any protests that we can think of about any topic always starts with someone speaking. So you've got to be willing to speak up. You got to shed how embarrassing it is. This isn't easy for me. I know there are people that I've already had many people doubt me. I know that people don't laugh. There are people that have jobs, whatever. But you got to put that aside for the greater good. The reality is I don't want to see another person go through this. I don't I don't want to have another person be out there feeling as if they have no one. There was so many times during this period. Well, I thought I didn't have anyone and I know a lot of people out of people I have number of friendships on you know with great organizations and there are people in But a lot of people can't understand it, but you've got to speak up, you got to take that chance. And in the process, you got to also be prepared, because some people cannot hear this, or they can't hear it more than once. And these are people that may even love you. Because it's harvest, I gave you guys one story, I've got plenty more, I could do a greatest hits, and there's a lot in that volume. But you're gonna lose some people temporarily, at least. And unfortunately, because not enough people have spoken up, you don't know the right people to go to to talk about your story. I've had fair pis that that just could not comprehend this. So therapists can't comprehend it, you better expect that some of your friends aren't going to be able to, so you're going to feel like they don't believe you, when in actuality, they do believe you, they just can't hear it anymore. They got problems too. And it's just hard to hear. But there needs to be a network out there, there needs to be like I said, the person I was there needs the person I am now what I can do is be more of this person I am now not just for myself, but for others. And it's important that we speak up and start if there is not one in existence, start in a group, you know, be in a group chat, an organization, a website, these are all things that I'm looking into right now, to see if I can provide some type of platform, if a woman comes with half of the things that I'm speaking to now. And it's just types in about three search words, there'll be a plethora of, of organizations and resources that come up. But when you're talking about for men, I'm not saying they don't exist, but they are not as readily readily available. And so many times being here in the home, I felt like I was by myself. And that is very dangerous, you know, to feel not believed. And by yourself, and then throw on top of that, that because of illness, you got up, you've got things in your home that could help you say, I don't want to see tomorrow, I'm done. I don't want to see that happen to anyone. And so if it means me, going through a low embarrassment or a few other things, so be it. I don't care about that anymore. I'm trying to live. I'm trying to be happy and productive. And I want to help somebody, I don't want any is so important for me, for someone living this life, not to feel alone. That's what I have.
Toni Henson:Well, Jay, you know, nothing that is done is coincidental. I saw you tell, in lieu to your story, when you were posting on Facebook, and then I felt compelled to get you on a show. So that shows me that the divine God is working for someone else to hear this. I know that for sure. You survived. You're still here. And you're you're a fighter, you're fighting for your life, but you're also fighting for the lives of others through your testimony. It is just incredible. I am so moved. And I just want you to know you are winning. Even if it doesn't feel like you're winning you are and you may or may have just saved somebody's life.
Warren:Thank you both. Thank you both.
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