S7:E5 | Real Relationship Talk for Black Couples

Learning how to be better and do better in relationships is not easy, but it's worth it.  Join Tony and Toni with relationship expert Dana Che Williams.

Sponsored by ABTF Travels: Arts and Cultural Experiences.   For details visit: AtlantaBTF.org/travels

Transcript

[00:00:00] Dana: It is emotional. It is spiritual. It is, it's, it was supposed to create a soul tie between you and someone else to bond you together for life. So you're just throwing that all around the city. You know, there's going to be consequences emotionally and, and, and I believe, you know, women, especially who portray this image as if like, oh, you know, we are, we are in control and you know, we love this and we're gonna take our sexuality back. It does make me sad for them because I know that there's a lot of deception there. 

[00:00:31] Tony: Welcome to season seven, a Black Family Table Talk. We are your host, Tony and Tony. Join us on our journey to discover ways to build a strong black family.

[00:00:41] Toni: This season is sponsored by ABTF travels. Join us as we travel each year beyond borders off the beaten path to immerse ourselves in cultures that celebrate our pan African heritage. Each journey is especially curated to [00:01:00] provide you with what promises to be a bucketlist transformative experience. 

[00:01:06] Tony: I can't wait until we go again.

[00:01:08] Toni: Me either To! 

[00:01:10] Tony: In the meantime, we have a very special guest joining us at the kitchen table this week. Listen up.

[00:01:20] Toni: Hey!

[00:01:22] Dana: Hi, how are you? 

[00:01:24] Toni: Great! How are you?

[00:01:26] Dana: Doing good. Thank you.

[00:01:28] Tony: Welcome to Black Family Table Talk. 

[00:01:30] Toni: Yes. 

[00:01:32] Dana: Glad to be here. 

[00:01:34] Toni: Dana Che Williams . It's such a pleasure to have you, you gonna talk about a hot topic today that we all need work in.

[00:01:47] Dana: That's right. That's right. 

[00:01:49] Toni: Okay. Communicating in conflict and reconnecting with your spouse. Now, you know, we need, we needed to [00:02:00] have you on last week.

[00:02:03] Dana: Oh, what was, what was going on last week?

[00:02:06] Toni: Not last week, the day before yesterday. 

[00:02:09] Dana: Oh, OK. 

[00:02:11] Toni: I forgot about that one too. Tell me, what do you do? What's your expertise? How did you come into it? And then maybe we'll have a live session here.

[00:02:23] Dana: OK. Sure. Sure. So I am a marriage and relationship coach. And I kind of stumbled into this work. My husband and I we've been married for, it'd be 23 years on Sunday and just being married young and not really having a lot of good examples before us. We obviously made lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of mistakes. And did really did really didn't know how to communicate well. A lot of times people say the problems in their marriage or their relationships is that they don't communicate.

[00:02:54] Truthfully, we all communicate. We just don't communicate well. And so through the years [00:03:00] I just started picking up little things and people would always be drawn to us, for some reason. They would reach out to us for advice or help or support. And so after probably five or six years of just organically coaching couples, which I wouldn't have had that language back then, but I decided, you know what, it's time to monetize this and make it a business.

[00:03:21] So I started my marriage coaching business and then two years ago, I started Real Relationship Talk, which is the podcast. Because I found myself saying the same thing over and over and over again. So I thought, you know what, let's start a podcast. And that way it can be another resource for, for couples who are struggling in their relationships.

[00:03:40] Tony: Do you find that this is, I hope I don't dominate this. Do you find that Tony, you can jump in. Do you find that this is particularly a struggle across cultural and ethnic backgrounds? Do you [00:04:00] think that. Because of the unique history of African Americans that we might have a different set of challenges? What is your perspective on that? 

[00:04:14] Dana: That's a good question, Tony. I, I coach couples across all cultural backgrounds. I have a couple that I'm coaching right now that the wife is Korean, the husband is Vietnamese. I've coached black couples, white couples, and everybody has communication problems. I will tell you that.

[00:04:30] I think that typically in the black community, whereas, and I think a lot of men and you can correct me, Tony. You're a man, obviously, if I'm wrong here, but I think that culturally, a lot of men just has, have not been given permission to emote and to really talk about what they're feeling. So in our community, and the black community especially, I do find that black men tend to be more reserved as far as really talking about their feelings.

[00:04:59] But I would [00:05:00] say that I think communication is an equal opportunity employer, if you will, for all, for all races and ethnicities. 

[00:05:08] Tony: Well, I, I, I, I would agree with that statement. But I would like to add that they, I do believe there are some unique situations with African Americans only because of the historical history we have in this family.

[00:05:24] I mean, this country with regards to not being able to marry, then be being allowed to marry. Once we became free, slave, free from slavery. And then going through a period of time where the nucleus of the black family was, was there intact. And then there was a point of time, I guess you can say the sixties with the welfare system, driving men out of the home and right?

[00:05:51] Dovetail right after that was the women's feminist movement. And that whole thing, I guess, [00:06:00] confused a lot of men on what their roles were. Am I in the house, I'm out the house. If I'm in the house, am I in the king? How do we rule? How do we manage? How do we communicate? Are we equal footing? It's a whole lot to learn and unlearn going through this.

[00:06:20] These, these years, this journey here in this country, given a special circumstances, how we got here. But back to your point, I, I would say men are reserved, very reserved, not really get in touch with their feelings, to the point where they wanna be vulnerable. Because when you open up, you open up your heart, your feelings, you can be hurt.

[00:06:43] And then you feel sometimes times that it, it takes away from you being a head of the home. If you, if it seems like you don't have it together. It's a lot going in there and, and, and you're right. You have to communicate and [00:07:00] talk these things out, but there's never been a manual to, no one put a manual together and say, Hey, this is how you communicate.

[00:07:08] This is how vulnerability is handled. This is how you can be vulnerable. But, you know, depending upon the make, you know, once you show some vulnerability, Not everybody can handle that because they can trample over and hurt people's feelings and things like that. And then you shut down. So it's a whole host of things that we dealing with. So what, what are your thoughts on thatr? 

[00:07:32] Dana: No, you know, Brene Brown talks about this and I think it was The Gifts of Imperfection. It was either that or Daring Greatly,, I think it was The Gifts of Imperfection. And she talks about, she wasn't talking from a black man perspective, obviously, but just from a male perspective, with many men that she had had conversations with and researched.

[00:07:51] And she said that while men know that their wives and their families want vulnerability from them. They also know [00:08:00] that the family would much rather the man to die on that white horse than to be weak. So it's this catch 22 with men. Where their wives will want them to be vulnerable and will want them to emote and share. But it's like, but not too much, you know what I mean? 

[00:08:17] Because most women still want that kind of strong provider protector, man. And if women feel that their husbands are crying at the drop of a dime, or they're not in charge of their emotions, and that actually produces feelings of not, you know, not being safe. Insecurity, which is usually a woman's greatest need to feel safe. 

[00:08:38] So there is, I feel sorry for you brother. Sometimes, you know, there is this dichotomy, if you will, of emotions, I think like men probably feel, you know. How, how can I be authentic and true to who I am, but still be strong enough for my wife to respect me. 

[00:08:55] Toni: Wow. Wow. I don't think respect, and [00:09:00] that's probably, that may be what the men are thinking. But I think that women, and I'm just speaking from my perspective as a woman, I think you either respect your husband or you don't. And I think when you move, I think you initially can begin with a level of respect. Because when you meet people, the expectations are high.

[00:09:22] There's a psychological contract that things are gonna be gonna be wonderful. You're gonna be my knight and shining armor and then the humanity shows up. And I think that I don't think that you can lose respect when people just because people are human, but I do believe that there's something with the respect that, that becomes a hot button in relationships and causes, or, or can be a used as a weapon to say, [00:10:00] okay, When, how can I put this?

[00:10:04] I think that respect or lack of respect or the accusation of lack of respect can be used as a weapon. And makes, or the word and the positioning can make a relationship really crumble at its foundation. I think it can be like the water that just sits there and just starts to wear away at, at the foundation of a relationship.

[00:10:32] When it may not even be a factor, but it's perceived, but perception is reality. So in other words, a woman can feel disrespected, but the man's intention is not to disrespect and vice versa. So, does respect come up more than communication, or is that really the core of? See we've been through lots of counseling and we, [00:11:00] we spent a whole lot of money on it.

[00:11:03] So, so we're asking these questions from a vantage point of I am anyway from a vantage point of experience, but can just, the, the, my question is can it really not be communication, but that kind of be the facade, but it really is people feeling disrespected and not being validated, not feeling heard?

[00:11:26] Dana: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's interesting. Cuz I was just with the client earlier this week, or I'm sorry, last week. And we were talking about this very issue where the husband, a lot of times will just snap at his wife. You know, he should snappy all the time and she cannot figure out why she's like, you know, it'll just be normal conversation.

[00:11:47] I'll be trying to have a conversation with him and he'll just snap off. And I told her, you know, I, I, I liken relationships often to a tree, so you've got like the limbs, which would be like the symptoms, right. Nothing will [00:12:00] change unless you get down to the roots of the problem. I believe what you're saying, Tony is the res, the lack of respect is the root.

[00:12:08] And then the lack of communication or miscommunication or bad communication is like the limbs on the tree. So, and this couple's example for this couple's case, for example. The husband has a deep seated disrespect for his wife because of things that she's done because of what he's perceived her to have done.

[00:12:28] And instead of them addressing that issue, they're coming to me and they initially came to me because of the way that he talks to her. So I can give them tools all day about, you know, how to be a better communicator and how to argue and not argue and how to control your anger. And we can do all of those things, but nothing is going to really change until we tap into the root of why does this man disrespect her? And can that be fixed? 

[00:12:56] How, what do we need to do to change his perception of who she is as a woman [00:13:00] and as his wife? And then when we change that, when we can figure that out, then she'll start to notice a difference in how he communicates to her. 

[00:13:08] Toni: Whew. Wow. Let that sink in. 

[00:13:11] Tony: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let that, that sink in, yeah. Absolutely. Backgrounds mean a lot. How people were raised, environment they come from, what kind of examples they have growing up. I saw violence with my mom and, and step dad growing up. And it, it, that was horrifying experience and it, it, it, it really affected me in a lot of ways because I have two younger sisters and they will always jump in and, and, and, and help my mom.

[00:13:46] And I was, I was paralyzed. I couldn't do anything. I couldn't move. You know, so a lot plays into that. You carry that into marriage, you know, your upbringing, you bring that into [00:14:00] it. And along with other things. And like you said, you have to get to the root of whatever issues you're dealing with, because that could be masking a, a lot of things in your behavior and, and why you do things and things.

[00:14:15] So communication is a big part of it, but like you said, there could be deep seated roots that people are dealing with. And, and, you know, I hate to keep using this as an excuse, but, you know, black people, we've been traumatized from the day we got here on this country. So and no healing from that at all.

[00:14:35] And we carry all that into marriage and parenting. You know, I was beat as a child and we sat, we had our children and we initially started doing that. Then we realized, you know, we went to college, got educated, read books and things like that. It, it gotta be a better way to race. And so just cold Turkey, stopped doing it and, and started doing lecturing.

[00:14:57] But that, that was something that, you know, we, [00:15:00] we had to correct in this generation. But all, all that stems from being enslaved and the mistreatment and trauma that we've gone through. And that also factors into how do we re relate to each other? 

[00:15:13] Toni: And I think that's why it's or let me ask you a question.

[00:15:17] Tony: Let her respond to that, Tony. 

[00:15:18] Toni: Okay. 

[00:15:19] Dana: Oh yeah. I mean, I completely agree. And I think that, you know, you bring up a point. That is no, one's really talking about that. No, one's talking about the residual trauma that cuz none of us were enslaved. But that doesn't mean that there's still not residual trauma from our parents and their parents and their parents.

[00:15:38] And it is not a coincidence that typically most black families, at least I would say 20 years ago and on spanked their children. That was a given. You know, if you didn't spank your children, that was, you know, you were looked at as odd versus white parents were talking about gentle parenting and all of these timeouts.

[00:15:58] And we were like, time out what? You know, [00:16:00] that wasn't our background. And I think it goes back to slavery when the masters obviously wanted to control their slaves, they beat 'em. And so those enslaved people saw, okay, well, this is how we get people to obey and comply. And so that was just passed down. And I do believe that there is a lot of, for example, you brought up earlier how single mothers, a lot of times, you know, if you are a black woman raising three boys, you don't have time to talk about their feelings and emotions.

[00:16:30] You're trying to make sure they survive. You're trying to make sure that they are not killed. You know, you're trying to make sure they don't get caught up with gangs and the wrong people. So a lot of the, the things that maybe white people or other ethnicities have the luxury to, to spend time with their children, when this mom's out here working two jobs and trying to make sure her kids aren't dead in the street, that can't be overlooked.

[00:16:51] and that residual trauma, like I said, you know, being passed down from generation to generation to generation, I'm glad that you guys saw that there is a better way. I know when my [00:17:00] husband and I first got married. I was totally against spanking. And my mom, I called my mom she was a great spanker. My mom never spanked us outta anger, but because she was abused as a child.

[00:17:10] So she grew up in all the violence and the dysfunction, every kind of abuse you can imagine. And she wanted something different. Then for her children. And so we got spanked, but she would sit down and talk to us and explain to us what we did wrong. And then she would spank us and then she would pray. 

[00:17:26] And we were like, I don't wanna pray with you. You just beat my butt! And she would be like, and I love you. I mean, she was amazing, amazing, but when we had our children, I was like, I'm not gonna spank. My husband was like, well, I am. You know, so you can imagine that that conflict that started right away. And so we had to work through that. But yeah, I just, I just wanted to agree with your point that there is a lot of trauma that we are facing, not only with how we raise our children, but even how we emote to one another and how we communicate to one another [00:18:00] as, as spouses.

[00:18:01] Because again, many of us, some people were raised in a, in a solid family where they saw mom and dad, but many of us were not. And so many of us, this is like a big experiment. You know, we're trying these things out, first generation. I come from every, pretty much every woman in my family was divorced.

[00:18:19] And so here we are, you know, fresh ground where we're like, all right, we're gonna push through. We're gonna figure this thing out so that we are not, we're breaking generational curses here. So that we're not continuing this cycle of divorce and abuse in, in our family. 

[00:18:34] Toni: I love what you just said. So many things came to mind, I had to start writing notes. But one of the things that I'm, that disturbs me is we've been in this, this thing. It'll be 33 years, this marriage, it'll be 33 years in July. And we got married we knew each other for four months, and then we decided to get married. So it was like, we didn't really know each [00:19:00] other at all.

[00:19:01] And so we got to learn each other and as it turned out, God really did, I believe, put us together for a reason. Because we have so much in common and it took us going to counseling to figure out that we have so much more in common than we don't have in common that we on the same page. So much more than we don't and we have to start focusing on what we are on the same page about versus what we aren't. 

[00:19:28] But the point of it, the thing I'm most concerned about, because it was a concern of mine coming from divorced parents is one of the things that I said, I would refuse to have a child with Tony until I knew that it was gonna work.

[00:19:46] So we actually were married for four years before we even start before we had a baby. And it was three years before we even started talking about having a baby. Because what I did not wanna do, I made a [00:20:00] conscious decision that I did not wanna be a single parent. And I was lucky enough to have been raised in a two parent home.

[00:20:11] And my parents' divorced when I was actually, after I went to college, they divorced. So I got the benefit of that, of being raised in a two parent home. So I was desperate, I was desperate not to, or to avoid being a single parent. And what I'm so, so I was very conservative in terms of my choices and my choices, my partner choices, until I met Tony. Then it's everything like just fell apart and I was like, oh, this is the man I'm gonna marry.

[00:20:41] But I think we're in a, a situation where we have such a free this, this like sixties relived. Where everybody has this sexual freedom and women are in, women and men are in throuples now. [00:21:00] Threesomes, pop, polyamory, and whatever it's called and, and all of this and all, and what I truly believe is that these are childhood wounds talking.

[00:21:12] And children are being born in these situations where the structure is not stable and you people can argue me down. I'm very opinionate you can me down, but structure is not stable. And these children are being born into these situations. And then they got this new term called co-parenting are we co-parent well, but is that the best for that child?

[00:21:37] So I just want you to comment on that. I don't, I, I've never been politically correct so why start now? Go ahead. I just want people to, I just wanna save people some steps cause we can make everything sound wonderful, but really at the end of the day, is it the best? Is it the best for us? 

[00:21:55] Dana: Right. No, I completely agree with you. I think that, you know, [00:22:00] is it, what is, what is behind this whole, like sexual revolution? I don't know. I have been asking that question for a long time, because, you know, on one hand it's like, people will say, well, we, we can live how we want, you know, you, you can't put your religious limitations on me and it's like, okay. But let's take religion out of it and just common sense. Like, let's just think of common sense. 

[00:22:21] Like, does this make common sense for you to be sleeping with 10 different folks that you don't know, like sex is more than just a physical transaction. It is emotional, it is spiritual, it is it's. It was supposed to create a soul tie between you and someone else to bond you together for life.

[00:22:38] So you're just throwing that all around the city. You know, there's going to be consequences emotionally. And, and, and I believe, you know, women, especially who portray this image as if like, oh, you know, we're, we are in control and you know, we love this and we're gonna take our sexuality back. It does make me sad for them because I know that [00:23:00] there's a lot of deception there.

[00:23:01] And I know that there are wounds there with all of this sexual freedom quote, unquote, but to your point. The children that are born into this, there is no substitute for having a mom and a dad who, you know, love each other. And you'll see children, they can, they can see if mom and dad aren't right. If there's something going on, it makes them insecure.

[00:23:23] You know, they wanna know that mom and dad are okay because if mom and dad are okay, then I'm okay. And so if mom lives in this city and dad lives in this city and I'm getting dropped off at this house Monday through Wednesday, and this house Thursday through Saturday, like that is not ideal. No matter how well the two parents get along.

[00:23:39] That is not the ideal situation for a child to be raised in. And I look at my husband and I, and most couples, you guys can probably attest to this you're opposites in many ways. And, and I think that that's a, it's a benefit. Sometimes we look at it as a detriment. We try to make our spouses like us, but it's actually a benefit when you look at the fact that, okay, when I'm like on a 10.[00:24:00] 

[00:24:00] My husband's usually like at a two, thank God. Cuz he can be more level headed with the kids. And, and so I appreciate this kind of ebb and flow that we have as a couple. And my mom was raised as a single parent home. Her mom was a, you know, like I said, we've had a lot of divorce in our family and I have seen the damage that was done because of a one parent household. 

[00:24:22] Now, of course that's not to judge a single mother or single father. Who's raising their child the best that they can on their own. No, but it's not the ideal way. And I think, you know, when we hear these moms that, you know, they're like, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get something for father's day.

[00:24:37] Cuz I'm my mother. I'm the child's mother and father. No, you're not. You're the mother, but that child doesn't have a father. And as much as you might love that child, I can never father my children. I just can't. There's nothing that I can do for them without a man. And this is why I believe God created man and woman together to [00:25:00] raise children because there are strengths that we each bring to the table that our children need to see.

[00:25:05] So. Look at our society, you know, and the fallout and the craziness, you know, that we're experiencing. And I think that it is proportional to what we have allowed to happen because of this so-called sexual freedom and sexual revolution that we have going on. 

[00:25:22] Toni: I could not agree more. Dana well said.

[00:25:25] Tony: Dana, let me ask you. And your, what, what do you call it? Counseling or clients? 

[00:25:31] Dana: Coaching. 

[00:25:32] Tony: Coaching. 

[00:25:32] Dana: Yeah. My coaching. Uhhuh. 

[00:25:33] Tony: During your coaching, do you find some of the people that you, you coach, do you think they throw in a towel too, too early? Are, are, are, are couples really fighting for their marriages or it just takes one or two things that I can't live or agree with and I'm out? 

[00:25:53] Dana: Yeah. I'll say with the clients that I work with, I don't think that they're throwing the towel in because they're [00:26:00] investing in their marriage. You all said that you spend a lot of money right in counseling. And this is why my, this is why I charge what I charge. You know, it's not so that I can be a millionaire, but it's because I think when you have financially invested in your relationship, when you have skin in the game, that is going to propel you to work harder at your relationship than someone who doesn't.

[00:26:22] Now, what I do see are couples who, you know, maybe they'll reach out for like a little, you know, free session. I used to do these free sessions and they're kind of trying to like pick my brain a little bit, but they don't wanna invest. Those are the ones who they'll give up or those couples who never even reach out for coaching.

[00:26:39] I have friends in my life who they know what I do, and then I'll find out that they're getting divorced and I'm like, what the heck? Like you didn't even reach out like, and it doesn't have to be me go to somebody, go to somebody who can help you. And I do believe because we live in such a microwave society where we want what we want. You know, you can have a full out [00:27:00] meal and five minutes or less. 

[00:27:01] And people think that that's how marriage works. That it's instant gratification. And we also live in a throwaway culture. So if something doesn't work for me, then I just throw it away, go get something else. This idea, this whole idea of like working, you guys have been married for 33 years.

[00:27:19] That is revolutionary in our society. Literally who works at something for 33 years. That is almost unheard of anymore because it's like, oh, what's not working out. This person's not making me happy. You know, they're not serving me. And so I'm gonna move on and find somebody else. And we don't have the, my, my old pastor used to call it, stick-to-itness.

[00:27:42] We don't have that as much in our society anymore because we've been duped. And we've been told this lie that first of all, marriage just supposed to make you happy. Well, who said that? Who said marriage is supposed to make you happy? And if you're not happy, God wouldn't want you to be unhappy. Show me that scripture verse. I've [00:28:00] never seen that in the Bible anywhere.

[00:28:01] Marriage is supposed to make you mature. And yes, you are gonna have to deal with a lot of stuff in marriage. And when people say things like, you know, my spouse is rubbing me the wrong way, or they're pulling out the worst in me. I'm like, that's great. 

[00:28:16] You want the worst to come out of you? Why would you want the worst to stay in you? So if your spouse is doing something to bring out the worst in you, thank God because now you can address it and now you can deal with it. And now you can mature. And I am just so grateful. My husband and I, we have been through everything and we could have thrown in the towel and we're tempted to, many times.

[00:28:36] Throw in the towel. This is too much, this is too much work. Is it worth it? And I could say now that it is worth it. If people just do the work, you're gonna find so much depth to yourself. You're gonna find, you're gonna see your spouse in a whole different light. I don't live for my husband to make me happy. We've well, we're well past that, you know?

[00:28:58] Do I wanna be happy? Yes. And [00:29:00] should you be happy? Yes. You should not be miserable in a marriage, but that can't be your primary aim. Because happiness is a fleeting emotion. I'm happy, one, some days I wake up and I'm just not feeling it. But we don't do that in any other area of our lives. No one wakes up and just says, you know, I just don't feel like going to work today.

[00:29:17] I'm just gonna quit my job and be a bum and just stay home. We don't do that. We still go to work. We still, I don't feel like raising my kids anymore. I don't feel like feeding them today. We still feed our kids. I don't feel we can't operate on feelings. And that's what happens in marriage is so often that people are looking at feelings.

[00:29:34] I don't feel in love with them anymore. Okay, and? You signed up, you made a commitment, a covenant, if you're a believer to this person. And so you don't have the right just to throw in the towel, when things get a little bit difficult. You gotta learn how to mature and how to stick in it and work it. If I always say, if you work it, it will work.

[00:29:55] People say, marriage doesn't work. It doesn't you do, though. Marriage is a thing, [00:30:00] right? You have to do the work. So if you work it, it will work. 

[00:30:03] Toni: Wow. 

[00:30:04] Tony: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:30:06] Toni: Wow. Dana, how can we get in? How can people get in touch with you? Did you have another question, Tony, a comment? 

[00:30:12] Tony: No, the only comment I was gonna make was she made a very, the key word was maturity. Toni and I's marriage. I had to deal with with maturity as, yeah. I just speak for myself. When you become married in a relationship, some of the childish things that you do has to be put, put away. And it, sometimes it, it appears innocent, but it, it affects your marriage. It affects your partner, affects my marriage with my wife.

[00:30:46] Just, you know, some of the things that I would, I would do as far as entertaining other women, nothing sexual, but in my mind it was innocent, but it's not. [00:31:00] Because I'm, I'm taking away from my marriage. I'm, I'm, I'm chipping away my wife's heart. And, and these are the things that I was accustomed doing as I was a young adult and just never stopped doing it.

[00:31:14] When I got married and, and, and that was on me. So maturity is, is a very key word to it and, you know. And it, it, it took some soul searching to realize that, and not a lot of people gonna see it. What you said to bring out the bad in you. We had a challenging point almost three years ago in our marriage.

[00:31:36] And this was like, after we empty nest. You know, so, and that's where the magnifying glass really comes in when it's just the two of you. And things you were accustomed to doing, kind of got camouflaged behind raising the children and being the busyness and things like that. So maturing is very key, and bringing out the worst thing you, [00:32:00] so you can realize that. Alright. That's the only comment I had. 

[00:32:03] Toni: And you had three really great takeaways. Do you remember what, what they were, I, I'm looking at 'em now that you feel would most benefit folks? 

[00:32:14] Dana: If I had three takeaways, what would I tell people? 

[00:32:16] Toni: Yeah, but you've you wrote down three great takeaways and I wanna read them, but they would be better in your own words. OK. 

[00:32:25] You said that your marriage is likely repairable if you put in the work. The second was, there are tools any couple can learn to take their marriage to the next level. And third marriage is a dance. You have to learn how to flow with your partner or you'll get your toes stepped on. 

[00:32:48] Dana: Yes, yes, yes. Can I talk about that third one real quick? Marriage being a dance. I get a lot of couples, especially women who will reach out for help, right. And they'll say my [00:33:00] husband doesn't wanna come to coaching, can you help me? Basically. And I always say yes, because if one spouse now, what, what we're not saying is that one spouse is gonna do a hundred percent of the work. But what I have experienced in my own life and in many couples that I've coached is that if one spouse is willing to take the initiative, the other spouse has to change their part of the dance.

[00:33:23] It's like, if you're, if you're doing the waltz and you step to the left, well, if your spouse wants to continue to dance with you, they have to adjust their step. Right? And so marriage is this constant learning. This is why, you know, Tony, you brought up a lot of couples will divorce in the empty nest stage and they do that.

[00:33:41] Because they stop being curious about each other. They stop learning each other one. One spouse is growing while the other spouse is stagnant. And so when the kids are gone, you know, we've got two adult kids now, and two teenagers that are still home. And my husband and I are constantly checking in with each other.

[00:33:59] If [00:34:00] I feel any sort of distance, or if he feel, he'll say, you know, you, I feel like you're pulling away. We, we nip that thing in the bud real quick, because all it takes is for you to drift off. For two to three months and before you know it, you don't know who each other is anymore. And so marriage is this dance where you're constantly having to step in, in line with each other, and you're constantly having to reevaluate how this thing is working.

[00:34:24] We don't have the liberty for stagnation. We don't have the liberty to allow our marriages to drift because what we think is just, oh, it's just, you know, I'm just not feeling it for the moment. That turns into complete disconnection, and then when you have those kids that leave, it's like, well, I'm not happy. Why am I gonna continue to do this? Or I don't even know this person or the, the classic. I'm not in love with this person anymore. 

[00:34:48] And so the relationships went in, but if we can teach couples, keep dancing, keep dancing, keep learning, keep growing, stay locked and stuff with each other, no matter what, then we will all be able to [00:35:00] ride these storms, whatever the storms look like in your marriage, which is why I say that I believe almost any marriage is repairable. As long as people are willing to do the work. 

[00:35:08] Toni: Wow. I agree. Dana Shay Williams, marriage and family counselor. You are— 

[00:35:17] Tony: Black Parent, oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. 

[00:35:19] Toni: Oh, you are a diamond in our community. Thank you so much for the work that you do. 

[00:35:26] Dana: Thank you so much, Tony and Tony. I appreciate it. 

[00:35:29] Tony: This is Black Family Table Talk.

[00:35:31] Toni: That's what's up. Thank you so much for being a part of, this was so. Thank you. 

[00:35:38] Dana: Thank you guys for having me. 

[00:35:40] Toni: Yeah, we appreciate it. It's gonna be a couple of weeks before this one comes out, but 

[00:35:45] Dana: Okay. 

[00:35:46] Toni: Laurie will send you an email with all of the graphic you can share with your community. I forgot to ask you, how can people get in touch with you? 

[00:35:56] Dana: Okay. So yeah, people can get in touch with me if they just go to [00:36:00] realrelationshiptalk.com. I do have a free audio that I'm giving out. It's basically seven secrets to a happy marriage. And so they can find that at real realrelationshiptalk.com/7things. So the number seven things. 

[00:36:14] Toni: So do that. Say that again? What's the website and it'll be in the show notes as well. 

[00:36:18] Tony: Okay. It's realrelationshiptalk.com/7things. The number seven things. 

[00:36:27] Toni: Thank you have a blessed day. 

[00:36:29] Dana: All right. You too. Take care.

[00:36:31] Toni: Okay. Okay. All right. Bye bye. 

[00:36:32] Dana: Byebye.

[00:36:34] Tony: That concludes this week's talk. We hope you found some tools to add to your strong black family toolbox and be sure to sign up for a free subscription at blackfamilytabletalk.com for special discounts and product offers reserved exclusively for you.

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