Black Family Table Talk
Black Family Table Talk
S7:E2 | Breaking Bad in School
Dr. Decoteau J. Irby sits down with Tony and Toni to give practical tips on how you can make sure your children are being treated fairly in school.
Sponsored by ABTF Travels: Arts and Cultural Experiences. For details visit: AtlantaBTF.org/travels
Today we have Dr. Decoteau J. Irby who is an author, a musician, college professor and an advocate for children. And he has done an incredible work in a incisive case study. His book is called Stuck Improving, and it analyzes the complex process of racial equity reform in K through 12 schools. Listen up.
Tony:Welcome to Season Seven of Black Family Table Talk. We are your hosts, Toni and Tony. Join us on our journey to discover ways to build a strong black family.
Toni Henson:I can't wait until we go again. Me too.
Tony:In the meantime, we have a very special guest joining us at the kitchen table this week. Listen up.
Toni Henson:Your work is incredible. It is truly off the beaten path. So it was interesting when I was reading about your book- Stuck Improving. Before I comment on it, tell us about it and tell us how you came to the title and what's your message?
Dr. Irby:Thank you for the question. So yes, Stuck Improving, I actually have it here. Stuck Improving came out last September. It's a book about rapidly diversify suburban school community, working to make a school more affirming place where it's black and brown students on this high school have about 1600 students. Like many schools across the country, school districts across the country, they're seeing an influx of Latin X and black students and black families, relocating for numerous different reasons. It was the kind of situation then I started the project in 2013. People were trying to figure out, what do we do in this predominantly white school community. Parents, teachers, educators, who had live for an extended period of time not really having to address head on issues of racism that existed within their community. Finding themselves in a situation where it's unavoidable, they have to confront the issues of racism that have existed for so many years and decades in their community. So that's what the book is about. The idea of Stuck Improving is basically captures the words of what people were saying. So when we were working with the community over a five year period to do professional learning for teachers to create things like student union, so Latino Student Union, Black Student Union, a group called Sister supporting sisters, so student voice, family engagement, all of those different sorts of things that we're knowing are important for creating more equitable school environments. They always will use this language like we're making progress, but I feel like we're stuck. I know that we're doing the work. I don't know how it's working. This is difficult. It's hard. And so the idea of Stuck Improving is a play on words. It's attempting to capture the interplay and the tensions that emerge and communities that commit themselves to actually trying to make their school environments better for black and brown children. On one hand is a little bit of, you take five steps forward, four back, two forward - it's that process, which I think black folks understand and know that that's the nature of change and process in our society. Because we have the experience, and we understand the history. I mean, I think we're in it right now. We had the Barack Obama era, and now we are in a setback, right. Experiencing a resistance in the backlash from the progress that we saw several years ago. So the idea is that it attempts to capture that and it attempts to explain what it feels like and what the experience is trying to actually make a school more equitable for black and brown children. That's the sum of it. I think the biggest takeaway that I would like people to take away from the book is that number one, progress is possible. But that to make progress requires a tremendous amount of struggle, but that is possible and that we should be working towards that even when there's moments of setback. Like the political moment where right now, I will argue is a moment where we're seeing it a lot of setbacks. But that doesn't mean that we should give up because we understand that history and our progress is not a linear thing. But it's always this tug of war between where we're trying to get and the forces and the people who don't want us to get there.
Tony:I don't know if you coined this phrase, but equity focused school leadership. Can you explain to us what do you mean by that?
Dr. Irby:It's not necessarily a term that I coined, it's used amongst many academics who focus on leadership. Sometimes people call it leadership for equity, equity focused, equity driven. So it comes in a couple of different variations. But basically, what it refers to is committing to making sure that achieving the goals, engaging in practices of equity is at the center of leadership. If I could just explain what I mean by equity, a lot of times people think that equity is like equality. But equity is really grounded in this idea that you are focused on redressing the harms, providing resources, providing supports to the people who who have historically been, and who are in current times on the margins of whatever kind of social system it is. So in the school context, we're talking about the students who have been historically not had access to educational opportunities, rigor, as well as opportunities to think about themselves in different ways. Like as opposed to being in a science class, you're treating the students as though they are scientists already. They come into the school with a particular kind of scientific knowledge. And so you are working with this person to sharpen and strengthen their scientific knowledge. They might have some misconceptions about how things work when they come in. But as we know, everything is science that we use, whether it's like put dagger in theorem, or whatever kind of formula, like a human being actually had to develop that and come up with that. These things didn't exist. In the same way if we think about young people, in particular, if we think about black people. As people who can develop ideas, and who can think about new theories, and that sort of thing. A lot of it has to do with treating. In my case, I like to talk about black folks, black children, and families as though they have assets that need to be built on an education process. Equity focused leadership centers that process because we know that by default, the system is going to treat and give the majority of white folks those kinds of experiences and opportunities anyway. It's kind of a taken for granted, by default, this student will do well, these white students will. The system is designed to work for especially middle class white students. And so an equity focus leader is a person who's committed to making sure and redesigning the educational process and educational environment so that it works in particular for students who haven't had that benefited out and those kinds of opportunities that come from.
Tony:I have a follow up question to that, this theory of equity focused school leadership, is it applied and majority black and brown schools as well as in schools where black and brown or maybe other minority?
Dr. Irby:It should be in the best of situations should be applied wherever need be. So I tend to focus, you know, as the book subtitle says, racial equity, I focus on racial equity. But this idea can apply to any of the students that find themselves marginalized in education process. So that could be students with special learning needs. It could be students with particular kind of, what we would call disabilities, what generally people call it disabilities, some of us will call it neuro diversities. Those students also need to have their experiences their voices and their needs sensor in the learning process as well. So it should ideally be happening in schools, even in schools with majority black populations, because even in those populations, you'll find certain students experiencing marginalization within the school community. It could be based around socio economic status, it could be based on geography, like where they live. They live in certain area. It could be based on for example, resources and supports that they have at home. So when we think about equity, really, the important thing is to think about who's on the margin, and then begin to design the educational processes, routines and structures around those students who would benefit most from additional kinds of investments. Again, I want to make the distinction because it's not about equality, is really about equity. Giving people the resources and taking down the barriers that don't allow certain students to opportunities to gain what they can so they can reach their fullest potential.
Toni Henson:Dr. Irby, I think the work is brilliant. I am absolutely mesmerized by what you're proposing. And if this theory could be adopted by schools across the country, I'm gonna stick a pin in it, I don't think it's going to make a difference. Because I think what we're dealing with, and I believe that we should still be studying, however, this disparity, and the resistance to equity is so rooted in the psychology and the foundation of this country, that I am at a point where I feel like we should just go somewhere where we don't have to continue to fight. We don't have to continue to educate and re educate that we should just focus on our own. You're broken. You have two beautiful children. All of this energy and time is to me, spent teaching folks that don't want to do better. So call me hopeless. I don't know. How do you move forward with this unbelievable concept, proven theory in amidst of this surging resistance?
Dr. Irby:Yeah, I appreciate that. I wrestle with the same question, a similar question. I've made personal decisions. My children to try to put them in educational environments, that they're surrounded by black people. So I think one thing that I have realized, and this is something that I would not have and I did not know, or would not have known to say, until I engaged in this research project for seven years, is that there's a wide range of variation in terms of people who want to put forth effort. So there are certainly a lot of people who just like, I don't care. There's certain people like this is just my job. And there's other people, both people of color, black people, as well as white people, often less many fewer in terms of numbers, that demonstrate actions and commitments. I think what I think about is in a particular community and society and a school, who I'm hoping this book, who gravitates in his book, are the people who want something more and who believe in the kind of vision for something better. Now, the challenge where racism and white supremacy is that, as you mentioned is ideological and structural. All of the best human effort ever, it requires major major, kind of like structural changes to actually, I mean, some of the structural changes I believe in is like reparations. I would not say reparations, my package would be expansive, and all encompassing, like we need money, land, every black child should be born with tax. XYZ, tie it all in. Take it all into the current system that exists right now. I think major overhaul with tax reforms for billionaires, all those things. So I think reparations is doable. That's what I think those sorts of things are the really the best solution, because they would allow then for us to be able to do things exactly like what you're talking about. If we want it to, I'm from South Carolina. I grew up in South Carolina. If we wanted to go to South Carolina, if we had the land, if we had the resources and that sort of thing, that we could establish something that will look more like our own. The problem right now, especially in regards to education, and most other social systems that are supposed to provide for us in this society, the racism is so deeply baked into them, that it's very difficult to think about what an alternative would be. I mean this is a global phenomenon. So the question I always have in my mind is, where do we go? How do we get there? I think, some of what I write about in this book, and I always try to tell people that this book is not like, I didn't write this for beginners people. It's not the like, what do you believe in racism? Do you believe in, you know, do you believe white supremacy exists? You might have no, right. I try to jump right in with the hopes that people who read this kind of book and are exposed to the kinds of things that I write about, can see and imagine for a different future. And I think our greatest hope, this sounds so cliche, are the young people. So I write about this particular school community. And I spend some time writing about the young people and a kind of student voice and them feeling like they have power. I think they have the power to lead us to somewhere that we probably haven't even imagined. And that as educators and parents in this village is our responsibility is to try to that creativity and ambition alive and not let it be stamped out as they come of age in a white supremacist society. So we're gonna keep those imaginations going, I think that'll get us to a different kind of social system.
Tony:Aside from the obstacles of racism, we know that exists. At one point in my career I've been a banker for over almost 30 years, but early on, I aibble and dabble with and education. Took the exam to be a school principal, etc. All the theories and things we're talking about culture and climate. I want an environment, regardless, if it's majority black or majority white, that children of color, have the opportunity to learn and pick up critical thinking skills. As long as they have the tools to deal with the obstacles in life. The racism or whatever it is, how does your theory deal with the climate and culture because we all know all schools not equal. Some schools, I mean the bar is so low, nobody can be successful. And then you have schools where the bar is high, but they're not teaching to the Black and Brown. And then you have sub schools, they teach to everybody. That's one of the things my wife and I did when we moved to South, we look for a school that was diversified. The black students was doing as well as the white students and other students in it. We don't want to go to majority school, majority white school. And then I teach in the black kids that that doesn't make any sense. So how does your concept factor in climate and culture and leadership in schools?
Dr. Irby:A lot of it focuses on many of the things that you talked about. A lot of it gets to the root of how people in a particular school, think about treat and educate young people. I do think there's some differences developmentally about where children could, should, and who they should be around. I think differently about younger black children in particular, and I'm much more vigilant as sensitive to who has access to the little ones, who might not necessarily be able to articulate some of what they experienced in their hands. I also think that there's this this aspect when they're in these formative years that requires people to treat them as though they like magical, and if they can carry that with them, it that has a long lasting effect. It's an incredible resource that children have, if they have people in their life, who treat them like they just are just like magical. My grandmother was that for me. It was funny, I think I might have put this in the part of the book, when I talked about my upbringing, but my grandma was hot when Barack Obama won, mainly because she was like, he was supposed to be the first black president. I voted for me anyway, though. To have somebody like that in your life and the more exposure they have, especially like elders and people who just have this unwavering belief in them. That's something that's a kernel that children can carry forward them for a long time. So I think that's one part, especially in those formative years. In addition to that, the academics piece is really important. But it kind of goes back to what I was talking about before in terms of you will teach them in ways that reflect what you who you think they are and what you expect for them to be in terms of their potential. For example, one of the classes that I teach at my university is about instructional leadership. So a lot of what we do is we talk about what kind of instruction children and young people get in. One of the things that's a crisis is that in the United States. Most of the learning is based on memorization and procedures. So the problem is, is that you don't come you don't become a strong problem solver by learning procedures. You can be a good test taker, you can actually get pretty good grades because most of the standardized tests require you to be able to follow procedures. So if you think about how we do math, typically you mult you memorize the multiplication facts, you memorize these things, you learn a procedure, and then your ability to demonstrate mastery is to develop the right answer. What I would like to see and what I think is really important for a child is that they actually you build in opportunity for them to make mistakes, and persist, regardless of whether they get to the right answer or not. Because the problems that they're going to be required to solve, in the world climate change don't have a specific answer. There's no procedure. The most important challenges that we see in our society don't necessarily have procedures that you can follow to solve them. They are complex, and they require people who can persist, who understand how to learn from failure, and so on, and so forth. And so I feel like I'm giving children an opportunity, giving young people the opportunity to do kind of like problem based learning, to have real problems put in front of them, are the things that are really important. I'll give you a concrete example of something that the kind of things I like to do with my children. So if you have, for example, a typical teacher might have you do something like learn how to measure square footage or something, calculate square footage, so you have to use the square footage, but then they might give an assignment, like, go home, and measure the square footage of a room. That's all right, there's a little bit of application, but you're still following the basic procedure of like, I need to count across the room this way, count across the room this way, and then multiply to get it. A much more challenging thing for a young mind to develop problem solving is to give them a blank room and say, we're going to have a reception, a wedding or whatever. We got to fit 100 people in here. Here's the tables that you can use. How are we gonna fit 100 people in here. You're gonna get all the same stuff. You got to understand square footage of the room. You got to understand the table. You got to understand the chair. Using those same basic math functions, but you're doing it in a way to create creative, which you can have groups of students with different levels of abilities have totally different outcomes of how you're going to serve the room. Some might use round tables that are eight feet, both as opposed to 10 feet, some might fit everybody and with long tables. Give them the opportunity to problem solve, to go in and say our goal is to fit 100 people into this reception, here's the dimensions of the chairs and the tables - round, square, rectangular. We need to be able to fit people in here and we need a dance floor too. So you got to make sure there's room for the dance floor. That's concrete stuff that you can get third graders to do. That will take them probably a week or two. But they will learn about square footage in a way that they'll have a conceptual understanding and application in a way that they never will if you just ask them to do the previous two things that I talked about. So for me, I think that the instructional methods and what we're asking students to do, is what I'm really looking for when I step into a school space, and if I can see children having those opportunities, which, again, back to your point, brother, Antonio, is that not only do black children often not get those opportunities. Unfortunately, most children in the United States don't get those kind of opportunities.
Toni Henson:You made a very poignant point, you got application there. And then you also have the opportunity to integrate technology. And you may have a burgeoning engineer or a budding architect. That exposure is definitely important. One thing that you just said, how we are losing ground on the world stage. And my husband and I, we spent a lot of time in Ghana, and interacting with the school students there. And one of the things that became very evident to me was how advance the young people are. Still critical thinkers. Very good at problem solving. As if it's second nature from a very, very young age. We've lost generations, kids. So what do we do now? What do parents do now? I'm at a point where I'm saying to myself, we've got to save our children. It's a life or death situation. They're being traumatized by the hostility in this country, and at the same time, falling in our ranking in education. So please, respond.
Dr. Irby:Yeah, it's a real challenge. It's something that I even, I wrestle with. Having two children now, and what I do is a workaround, which is a lot of what I was just describing to kind of supplement. Give them challenging things to help them be problem solvers. But, I mean, I think you're right on point. I think about I have examples of when I go into a school, they're supposed to be hight performing and the students can solve problems, they can do procedures, they can get right answers. But if you put like a new or challenging or complex problem in front of them, a lot of times they don't even know how to collaboratively work to go about it, don't have kind of like, I guess the pros are able to persist through challenges and those sorts of things. And on the other hand, it's been instances. I remember I went into this school one time, but just activities I would do when I would go to schools, it's kind of like a critical thinking activity. Most of the time, they would take students 30-45 minutes to figure it out. I went into the school that was like, really in the hood, this is in Milwaukee. I used to live in Milwaukee. And I went, and I did this activity with some students at this school and they knocked it out in like, five minutes. So I'm like, Okay, well, that kind of messed up my workshop, because I got to kind of make some stuff up here. When did I expect to get this this quickly? I mean, but it was fast. And so I think, again, this kind of goes back to the idea of the assets that students have because students, many of the students will be will have low expectations of and will give worksheets, have incredible capacities to solve complex problems, situational awareness that a lot of times students who might be from more affluent communities or whatnot, don't have. What I'm saying is that their ability to problem solve is an asset. And if they were really thinking about like how do we we see these children as problem solvers. We understand them as problem solvers. How do we continually build on that, it makes everything easier when they get to the college level. I can tell you how many undergrads that I've had and I can kind of tell what kind of school they came from, because it's almost like they were not necessarily robots, but just don't even have an opinion. You can't even really engage in a conversation in a way that demonstrates that they're having an opinion, because their whole education socialization, has been not about having an opinion, not about solving a problem, not about taking perspectives, but about coming up with the right answer, or writing the perfect sentence. I guess I didn't really answer your question, I guess I'm just kind of reflecting in terms of building off of what you were talking about the difficulty of being able to find the educational kind of environment that works well to create people who are problem solvers.
Toni Henson:You know, one of the things that I do, I believe, is that you have to advocate for your children, however you can. And we, you have to take stuff off your plate, in order to be an advocate, and also always be in crisis management mode. And one of the things that I realized when I got pregnant with my son and I had a nanny, I was going to work, I was going to have this wonderful career and, and law enforcement, I worked for the prosecutor's office, making money, Nordstrom shopping, designer shoes, sports car. And then I have my daughter, and took my son to the doctor, and my son cry when he got to meet me, he went to the nanny. And my world was crushed. And I said right then Oh, no, this is what I've been told is good. But this is not actually what's good. I don't want to be the total essence woman. I just want to be mom right now. So I quit my job, we moved out of our house into an apartment. We made a radical change, or the question is knowing what you know, give people permission to be radical. And to bring in consultants like you to teach professional development classes, to teachers and how we as a parent, can have that voice in our communities.
Dr. Irby:Yeah, absolutely. 100%. I think very similarly. I think there might be one slight difference, but I always tell people that making sure black children get what they need, educationally is a struggle and a fight. Whatever the situation is, and so you choose your fight, whether that's going to be we're going to move and relocate or whether you're gonna be very involved in the school that you in, whether that's staying in crisis mode, and always being like they're in present. It's just what you got to do. I'm at the school. My wife is a member of the local school council. Because we got to be there. My mama was at the school. I was a little bit of a difficult student. I never will forget my mom. So she had me in a couple of different schools, I moved a lot of schools, and she kind of maneuvered to try to find the right school for us. But by the time I got into middle school I used to kind of show up, and then my mom started volunteering in the office every Friday. It wasn't before, maybe an hour or two hours, she helped him volunteer in the front office. That was game changing for me. There's multiple different ways to fight for your children's education. What I always tell people, if you're not fighting some kind of fight, it's a problem. Because it's always gonna be some kind of fight. Whether they're at school, in afluent school, and with a handful of black children, or whether it's inner city school with a lot of black people, they're supposed to be culturally responsive and supposed to focus on black history. They got other problems. This is always something. So you have to know and understand that in order for them to get what they need is going to require your active engagement and involvement in a fight. Now, the thing that I'm always mindful of the resources that we have, the flexibility that I have, and that sort of thing. And so I try to talk about what people can do in a way that's non judgmental, and also not to suggest like, if you're not doing this, you're not a good parent, we don't care or whatever. But it's important to try to figure out the ways to be involved. And for a lot of parents, that means getting involved with other organizations, I realized that I have quite a bit of power in terms of my like, professional standing status, and even the knowledge I have about how school works and how to interact with the, with the schools. But what I tell other people is they're like, numbers is power too. You got to figure out like how you're going to be powerful, and where you're gonna get some power from, voting and elected if you have an elected school board, that's power. Going to talk to the people at the school board is power. Even relationships, establishing strong relationships is power. If you have a special bit of knowledge about something, you got to engineering, background and math, that's power. So part of it is and I always encourage people to utilize and step into the power that you have whatever it might be, and wield that power, to make sure that our children get what they need. So if not multiple different ways, and I'm always mindful not to say this is what y'all should do, this we shouldn't do. But people really need to think about what power they have and use that power to make sure your children get the kind of education that they need. And like I say, one of my things is my things is like struggle is it's always a struggle.
Tony:I totally agree with you, I just want to go back to something you said very early on. I worked for someone early my career, he was a former commissioner of education. He said every child should have at least one person in their life that is crazy about them. Outright crazy about them. And that does everything to a child's self esteem, to go out there and get things done. And it's so much for that confidence, when you have that one person in your life. So it's a lot of things we could do but that's one of the things I think you mentioned earlier, that we should definitely put in the equation along with using our power to influence and make changes in our child's education.
Dr. Irby:Just the follow up on that, one of the things when I do these kinds of like climate assessments of schools, one of the survey things is like, who are the adults that you can go to. Who got your back, there has to be one or two adults. This is something very concrete that may hopefully your listeners will just latch on to is like, you gotta know from your child. You can have a back but who in the school got your back and you need to find out who that person is that sees the light and the potential of your child. And you got to desk the person and it might be different. You have two different children. Some people might not gravitate to this child, some might gravitate to the other one. But when you see somebody gravitate, you really got to work with them to make sure they have multiple champions and somebody who could really champion them from within the school organization. So it's amazing to me because we do the climate surveys with students, and we break it down by like race and gender and everything. And it's amazing how many students, one of the questions is, I have an adult that I can go to, to help me with a personal problem. In the school, I have an adult in the school that I can go to, to help me with academic problem, that sort of thing. I have somebody who I know really cares about me here. They got to be able to name who that person is. One of the things I either work with administrators and building leaders on this is like, every child in the school should have that person. In the school building. So some schools have this organization, this thing where they do like these. They assign them kind of, like when they're in ninth grade, high school is in particular, but they should be doing this at all, in all schools, as they found, and they have that one person who kind of like, stays with them, who's their kind of champion in that school community. It is the person who can interface with the parent and administrators or teachers who a parent might be having issues with, because dealing with schools, deaing with teachers or dealing with administrators, for the for most people is very intimidating. It takes practice, it takes going up there, it takes being assertive, you're gonna get called names, you're gonna be a problem, your child gonna be the problem, they don't want you here, when you come and people rolling their eyes, that's part of it. And so building the capacity to be able to do that it's easier when you have that person inside the school community, who also believes you champions your child as well, because interfacing with these systems, and the schools in particular is is intimidating. Most people go to the teacher and parent conference, and just sit there and listen to what the teacher got to say. That's what most people do. You actually can say, like, I got some questions, right. And you can do those things, you can set an example, as a student work. Most people, even if they know, they can't do that, don't do it. Like I'm thinking about my wife, she's learned over time by watching me, but we would leave a conference with teachers or administrators, and she would just like, it's really good for me to see what you're taught how you are interacting, because I would never think that I could do that. Cuz I can be like, Oh, I appreciate that. Let's get to the math. Or somebody might say, Well, your student has their reading or level XYZ or their math is I'm just like, okay that's cool. That's how they do on a standardized test. What are they learning? What are you seeing today? What are you seeing that they don't know, that we could be building on? Thank you for that. Can you show me some work and show me some examples, like parents can do all of that but some don't know that they can do that. And then there's even more who know they can. But because it's a certain script that you walk into when you go into a school, and the teachers think that scripted beyond the expert, you won't listen, as opposed to thinking of as a partnership and these conferences as a really opportunity to conference in. Dialogue and communicate about how to support the child. A lot of people are intimidated by the process, which is why I think report card nights aren't as well attended as they should be, because we meet in around a report car as opposed to a meeting around student learning. A report card is a report, it doesn't necessarily tell you anything about what your child is learning, how to grow and how they're developing. And so I think those kinds of things are really important to convey to listeners today. To think about those sorts of things as well. You can't be scared, you kind of got to go do it. It gets easier over time, but teachers and staff talked about it, talked down to me, they taught me.
Toni Henson:You're Dr. Irby, come on!
Dr. Irby:Somebody told me they Google. Who is this crazy parent doing up here. They're not coming to me and a week later and it's like Dr. Irby now.
Toni Henson:I think you made a really good point. You talked about relationships. And you talked about managing the relationship. And I think just like anything you navigate, it's you. You have just really just opened up a floodgate of ideas that you don't have to take what the status quo culture is, you can go in there and say, Listen, I want to partner with you. I want to partner with you in their learning. I don't want this relationship to be adversarial. I want you to know that I'm in your corner. I think sometimes teachers need to hear that. Thank you for those comments. So that was really good.
Dr. Irby:Getting close to the report card is nice but meet outside of the report card, it is such a high stakes, stressful time to talk with someone who's supposed to be a partner in helping your child learn that you got to follow up with them outside of that context. In the vast majority of people encounter teachers during this very stressful moment for everybody. Students, parents, everybody's really stressed about the report card, you got to find ways to engage in the other than a report card.
Toni Henson:I think we're in radical times, and they're, they're gonna call for radical changes, and paradigm shifts in our outlook on the systems that we engage with, especially the systems that we engage with, with our kids.
Dr. Irby:I 100% agree. But yeah, I think even you bringing it up, bringing it back the idea of the scripts is that, it's very important to notice them, so that you know, when you are following it, and in it, and then once you notice that just having to taking the risk to step outside, and wonderful things can happen when you step outside of the scripts.
Toni Henson:I'm so happy you came. Dr. Irby, thank you. I love the work that you're doing. I just want to say keep doing it. Keep fighting, I'm tired but another generation is coming in another way.
Tony:And it takes the parents have to be participants in the process. Just can't sit back. Look at the situation, see what they saying about your child and put an action plan together.
Toni Henson:And you don't have to believe what they're saying about your child.
Tony:This is Black Family Table Talk.
Toni Henson:That's what's up!
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